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Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:46 pm
by ZomgPonies
Roundstart changes:

Here is the way vampires are currently setup in code:

Minimum readied players to become a possible start: 15
Min amount of vamps: 1
Recommended amount of vamps: 4 (meaning if gammode starts with 15 players minimum, it WILL try to find 4 willing players to turn into vamps)

Here is what I recommend we replace it by:

Minimum readied players to become a possible start: 25 (so about 30 active server pop, including those who like to late-join, etc)
Minimum amount of vamps: 1
Add an extra vamp every extra X players on top of the minimum players readied up at roundstart: 25 (so 1 vamp @ 25, 2 vamps @ 50, 3 vamps @ 75, etc)


Objectives:

Here are the current objectives vamps get:

GUARANTEED Blood Objective between 150 and 400 units
GUARANTEED Assassinate objective of 1 crew member
GUARANTEED Steal objective of 1 item
80% chance of Escape objective
or
20% chance of Survive objective

My recommendation is to replace the Assassinate objective with "Thrall specific crew member", and only happen 50% of the time. This would allow for occasions where a player COULD play a vamp in a way that isn't automatic perma if they don't end up getting that objective. However thralling someone is considered removing his agency and is definitely a perma-worthy crime. On the OOC side, Thralling at least keeps a player in the round and involved in the antag RP. This requires EoC/antag SOP changes, so keep reading further.


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Lore/SOP/EoC Changes

https://scorpiostation.com/wiki/index.php/Vampire

- Remove reference to the Vamps working for the Syndicate. This is Nanotrasen's paranoia talking, and Ark Soft ISN'T as dumb as Nanotrasen :)
- Replace references to Vamps being soulless bluespace parasites that take over someone's body with more classic tropes of Vampires being made (willingly or unwillingly) by other vampires, but still being the same 'person' as they were before. This would allow for RP regarding some vampires having been thralled and converted unwillingly and dealing with the classic duality of not wanting to be evil, but needing blood to survive.
- Vampires should not automatically be considered EoC until they actually do something perma-worthy. They are still crew, and sec will likely want to keep a closer eye on them if found out, but normal space law applies to them. However, Heads SHOULD be free to demote known vampires from their job since they have a stigma surrounding them and potentially cannot be trusted. This should allow for more 'friendly vamp' RP.
- Traitorvamps should be considered EoC because of the 'traitor' part, so EoC should be based on proving they are traitors.
- Fully powered vamps follow the same rules -- Space law applies to them, but since they cannot be permad they have no choice but to be executed for the crimes they have committed. They are felt to have fully embraced their vampiric nature at that point, and few crewmembers should feel safe around them.


https://scorpiostation.com/wiki/index.p ... es#Vampire

- Replace references to vampire being like traitors or changelings.
- Be clearer that Vampire objectives do not ALWAYS include murder.

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:35 pm
by ThePuppay
I'd say personally from round start vampire player limit being changed from 15 players to 25 is a good change in of itself.
We don't get a skeleton shift powerful being or BEINGS inside the station when there are no applicable heads of staff or security force.
This was a old part of code that realistically just wanted to showcase antagonists that were there for players to be a solo-off antagonist.
I'm sure in the future we will get to consistently see them again, especially when the server starts to gain some traction.

As for objectives being updated to the vampires, I sure appreciate the antagonist vampire potentially being a passive force that can complete their objectives while not likely hindering crew efforts.
Never said stealing the NAD doesn't cause panic but... It sure does allow for the more secretive and passive play style vampire that isn't actively hindering the station.

I appreciate the lore aspect of them still being the same person, even in vampire form, however it does not make sense that vampires have no connection to the syndicate if an objective permits them to steal a high-class item from command (or research points).
If the vampire is indeed, the same person, the shape shift ability should not be an option for the vampire as that would be a contradictory part of one of the vampire's few abilities.
I agree that a crew member in order to be a valid EoC, in terms of contraband, actions, or general instability of the threat (looking at you, changelings.), that a crew should be deemed as such.
When a vampire truly hits their peak point, it should be, yes, still noted that they are a guaranteed EoC and should be dealt with like vampires before their own.

In the end if you need my TLDR of things I disagree with, it would simply be how the vampires have no connection with the syndicate despite having a clear objective to steal a high-class item and how the vampire is still the same crew member despite having the clear ability to shape shift a few bites in.

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:48 pm
by garrett77
ThePuppay wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:35 pm
I appreciate the lore aspect of them still being the same person, even in vampire form, however it does not make sense that vampires have no connection to the syndicate if an objective permits them to steal a high-class item from command (or research points).
I somewhat recall reading somewhere on Paradise wiki that the Syndicate hires Vampires to do their dirty work. I could be mistaken. It certainly makes sense, and I'm fairly sure changelings are the same.

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:43 pm
by ZomgPonies
I think we could flip the lore around by saying the vampire has orders from the High Vampiric Council to steal the high-value item, so that the Vampiric Council can then trade it to the Syndicate in exchange for *some vague promise or favor*. That way Vampires won't be directly associated with the Syndicate and immediately succumb to the pitfalls of such an association (being considered a traitor to the corporation, etc).

As for shape shifting, I feel like it should probably be changed to instead turn the vampire into a tiny, harder to hit (and potentially faster) bat mob that's able to go over tables (since flight), and that a vampire could switch to it and return to himself at the cost of blood. Does that make more thematic sense? Because I feel like pure shapeshifting should really be reserved for changelings, since it's their primary ability.
I'd likely make it so using the bat is much cheaper than say Jaunt/Mist Form which should really be considered a high-powered ability.

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:31 pm
by garrett77
ZomgPonies wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:43 pm
I think we could flip the lore around by saying the vampire has orders from the High Vampiric Council to steal the high-value item, so that the Vampiric Council can then trade it to the Syndicate in exchange for *some vague promise or favor*. That way Vampires won't be directly associated with the Syndicate and immediately succumb to the pitfalls of such an association (being considered a traitor to the corporation, etc).

As for shape shifting, I feel like it should probably be changed to instead turn the vampire into a tiny, harder to hit (and potentially faster) bat mob that's able to go over tables (since flight), and that a vampire could switch to it and return to himself at the cost of blood. Does that make more thematic sense? Because I feel like pure shapeshifting should really be reserved for changelings, since it's their primary ability.
I'd likely make it so using the bat is much cheaper than say Jaunt/Mist Form which should really be considered a high-powered ability.
I quite like both of those ideas, especially the top one.

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:07 am
by Darkmight9
I've had my own ideas for vampires though this would be a more down the line project to work towards.

I was thinking that vampires would pick a 'class' that'd give them various different abilities with the current abilities they have being separated into the 3 classes I have come up with so far.

-All vampires

All vampires can heal in a coffin healing 1 brute, burn, and tox damage per second.

All still have glare and lesser rejuvenate

Hypnosis works slightly quicker and doesn't take usable blood, also puts target to sleep.

-Assassin
The steathly killer

Blood blade(think changeling arm blade but bloody) would cost some blood to summon it, maybe also cost blood to keep it maintained too?

Plague touch becomes Poison Blood which quietly gives tox damage to a person (whatever that delayed toxin is)

gets Cloak of shadows which is now an active invisibility rather than be light dependant

gets thermal vision


-Mastermind
The thraller and minion master

gets Enthrallment to make proper minions

Summon bats summons 3 or 4 bats now and is on a shorter cooldown. They act as chaff and distractions

Summon wolf a quick tough attacker

Jaunt(Mist Form) for positioning and escape


-Tyrant
The brute class

passive regen, immune to holy water(?)

greater rejuvenation that heals IB and broken bones

gets the vampires various screams

increased punch damage?

Blood crawl?

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Would take some work to make all of this happen but I think it wouldn't take too much work to make happen

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:47 am
by ZomgPonies
Please check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCOAzXvaJoU for a gameplay demo of how Fulp's bloodsuckers work.

Re: Proposal - Gamemode - Vampire

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:25 am
by McRamon
My thoughts:
I find it weird vampires have same objectives as tators (except blood).
Why do they need to kill someone specifically? Why do they care about tech?
More fitting objectives could be:
1) thrall someone specific. Maybe go far enough and make it so thralled target becomes child vampire. True love
2) steal artifact. Not many targets currently for it but could be something like: null rod, captain rapier.
3) hijack but in vampire style - conquer the domain. Not sure about specific terms but first that comes to my mind - when shuttle docks at cc, you must remain on station and amount of thralls on station must be higher than nonthralls.